Resolved: That a person who has reached Xian Maturity, as a result, will no longer sin. Being sinless is not a measure of, but a result of Xian Maturity. Xian Maturity is a result of learning to love as Jesus commanded, exemplified as Matt 5:48.
Terms:
Perfect. Mature, complete, finished. I recognize the Utopian aspect of the English word perfect has only existed for a handful of decades and didn't exist in 1611 when the Greek word was translated to English.
Example, a boat can have flaws, but if it floats and does its job it is Perfect in the sense the Greek word is usually used.
Mature. Having been cured/grown/progressed/graduated to a finished state. A child is mature when they reach adulthood. A tree is mature when it produces fruit.
Romans 6:22 is a description of a process that one reaches Xian maturity.
Freed from sin/atonement = saved.
slave to God/ Obedience =trials and tribulations--discipline--training
receive a benefit = His seed, His Spirit, Him in you. 1 j 3:9, Rom 8:9, 1 j 5:18.
The benefit leads to sanctification. = Christian maturity,
Sanctification is used many ways. When saved you are "set apart" when mature you are MADE again, heart and mind adjusted by God. This is the made apart sanctification above and it has discernible benchmarks to lay claim to it.
While this is a process that you will do work to achieve, the work you do is like Moses holding the stick over his head to part the Red Sea. Who parted the sea, Moses and the stick, or God. Why did God make Moses hold the stick up?
The end result is more than a position, or how Christ looks at you, it is how you have been matured, quickened, made anew, actually regenerated. It is more than you want to do good, but by Him in you, your life is doing good.
Preemptive arguments
1 John 1:8 does not say you will sin forever. It says we all have sins on our person. Which is true for anyone but Christ. Only He lived a life free of sin. We are born to sin, and do sin until we are quickened/made mature. Also: John claimed to walk in the light AS HE DOES. And unless He sinned, if John sinned then he wouldn't be walking in the light AS HE DID.
Romans 7: 14-28ish. If that was Paul attesting to still having a sinful nature and committing sins caused by that nature of sin inside of him, then Paul was drunk, delirious, deliberately misleading in 7:5 when He said him and others were not in the flesh. One also has to ignore the hypothetical nature of the IFs you find in these verses. IF means maybe, not assuredly. If is conditional, not declarative.
Sinful nature til you die..... is contradicted in col 2:11 where it's removed by Christ in a circumcision which doesn't return/grow back.
Romans 8:9 that when/if the sinful nature indwells you, you are no longer in the flesh.
Gal 2:20 it's no longer me who lives, but HE who lives in me.
"Do you know anyone who is sinless/are YOU sinless".
If I am sinless or not is irrelevant when determining what scripture says. If I pass at that demarcation point or not, doesn't change what scripture says.
I don't know if I have met someone or not. I can't judge their hearts. And I have never met anyone that has been raised from a three day death, either, would you suggest we destroy the claim of our messiah because we haven't met them either?
I'll field any and all scriptures.
If you claim I'm taking something out context, back up your claim and show the context. Those will usually be long enough tangents to warrant their own discussion, however. I can put up about 85 pages of reasoning with scripture from all over the Bible to show it's a consistent corroborative message.
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